Transpeople == rapists and pedophiles?

[polerin]

So.. I haven't really had the chance to write this up fully... I've been to busy and my sister has been in town, but mAndrea's most recent blog entry really takes the cake. In it, while throwing some pretty nasty stereotypes around and catching them with mockery and derision, she has this lovely blurb.

A second point is that transfolk confuse subjective life experience (which is merely a perception or opinion) with validation of the ideology guiding that perception. Since they can’t or won’t accept that the definition of ideology does indeed apply to transgenderism, they perceive any negative criticism of that ideology as a personal attack. But in reality, a “subjective life experience” only proves that the person feels a certain way; emotions are not objective truth.

This is a logic problem, folks. If the transgendered are going to claim that “subjective life experience” proves that the underlying ideology guiding that life experience is valid, then the following are true as well: The life experience of pedophiles proves that sex with children is beneficial to pedophiles and as a consequence society should be looking for ways to mitigate the harm to children who are raped by pedophiles so that the benefit to pedophiles can continue. The life experience of females who have been raped by every male relative they know proves that all men are rapists and as a consequence all men should be leashed. The life experience of rapists prove that rape is good. The life experience of transitioning proves that transitioning is good. The life experience of alcoholics proves that they feel relief and more relaxed when other people stop trying to take away their bottle.

... so ... i'm a pedophile rapist who has a drinking problem? Wow. I never realized.

Comments

[khaoskomix.livejournal.com]

Arguement flaw: It's making the assumption that people transision because it makes them feel good, wheras transision is actually a person getting back to their normal level. You can't compare alcholism to it, because alcholism (and being a rapist) are both decisions that a person has made. The decision to not be put in the right gender was never down to the person.

Sorry, you already know this, I'm just ranting slightly.

Guh, hate.

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

heh, if that were the only problem with the whole thing. I don't really want to give more link power to the silly thing, but it's at feminazi.wordpress.com
Probably NSFW though, so you might not want to take a peek till you can resurrect your be-coked modem.

You of all people will be irked even more by the fact she calls it a "graphic novel."

**twitch**

[lisaquestions.livejournal.com]

Yeah, although she's shifted the goalpost so many times her position isn't clear. She also steals the structure of arguments used against her to rephrase her own arguments.

It's my own opinion that trying to engage her at all is a waste of time and effort. She has her agenda and will stay that course no matter what.

[lisaquestions.livejournal.com]

She's writing hate speech, nothing more. It's an ontological house of cards. She keeps focusing on how trans people have subjective experiences and how those experiences are only bad for trans people because she doesn't really want to deal with anyone pointing out that her observations are entirely subjective and completely biased.

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know.

The ironic thing is that some of the things that convinced me the most about feminism being real and necessary were completely subjective. It was the difference between my perception and their perception of events that opened my eyes.

[lisaquestions.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Also, objectivity is a favorite tool of oppression. The idea that you can look at a situation and weigh both sides equally always favors those with privilege, and that's how Andrea is using objectivity.

Where subjectivity is describing your own experiences, which must be dismissed. Never mind that Andrea's descriptions of her interactions with trans people not educating her enough are also subjective. It's her privilege that leads her to think her experiences carry more weight than yours or mine.

[attitudeproblem.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

Pardon me if I'm a little slow, but isn't, say, experiencing one's gender as a woman, a 'subjective life experience' that proves their ideology and essentialism? Isn't one's sexuality a 'subjective life experience' that leads to queer ideology?

I mean, really? If they're going to boil it down to this bullshit illogical pseudo-theory, then I think I'm allowed to meet them on their sheerly ridiculous grounds.

I'm thinking I'm going to have to refuse to engage the TERFs, because their distortions do not compute, full stop.

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

Only problem is that then their BS goes unchecked and without comment, and more people get drawn in. This is the reason you only see unwavering adulation of their supporters and lack of people actually arguing with them on their own blog (Yay moderation!). I don't think my current session of arguing with them will last much longer... mAndrea has basically stopped answering me on Hoyden, and has I doubt she'll let any comments I eventually do make on her current smearfest through.

[attitudeproblem.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

Very true, though I can say that if anyone actually made it over to Attitude Problem with their bullshit, I would be all over that. I'm too small a fish for the TERFs' tastes, I think. I just have given up on the Hoyden thread because you and Lisa and a whole lot of other people have been making points just as well if not far better than I have, and clearly it's not getting through. Hell, it's not even at the point of rational debate, much as mAndrea tries her bullshit about 'objectively' looking at things--talking about rapists, addicts, and pedophiles has a shitton of emotional resonance.

I may have to make another post on this topic, though, so that I can actually say my piece before I explode into little Bene pieces all over teh intarweb. I've been reticent because most of my experience, friendships, and direct activism come from the GQ and trans*men side of things, so I don't want to hurt any trans* peeps outside those experiences by saying something wrong.

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

actually the funny thing is that mAndrea came over here to comment on my comments... that I left on HER blog. My little LJ should be so blessed. As always, I don't speak for myself, but I think the best way to not offend people is to make it clear you are only speaking to the experiences you've had, and not close the door on others by how you phrase the things you talk about. It's not perfect, but it's all I can offer myself :/

[attitudeproblem.wordpress.com (from livejournal.com)]

Righto, I hear that. That's all we all can do, I think, is talk about experiences. I just wish I'd paid attention more in theory courses in college, so I could come up with something delectably self-righteous as icing on the cake, instead of saying 'essentialism is elitist bullshit' a bunch of times in several different ways. Or 'how the hell can you relate such harmful behaviors to a part of someone's identity that hurts no one?'

Also, if I have to hear 'the transgendered' one more time, I am going to punch something. Way to dehumanize people by knocking them down to a single label, in a very well-documented linguistic method. 'The blacks', 'the Jews', 'the handicapped'...

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

heh, yeah... there is a reason my site is eclexia (http://eclexia.net). Hint: it's not just my musical tastes. Trans is far from the only thing I am.

[lissa2001.livejournal.com]

OOO..drunken pedophile?? You can touch me. I'll like it! :) <3

[eclexia.livejournal.com]

smart ass ;p

[hartley.livejournal.com]

::blink blink::

What?

That made no sense whatsoever.