In which I am a prude
Aug. 10th, 2008 01:31 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
polerinSo, this is a fairly long conversation in irc, in which I get called a bullshit feminist, and fairly ammusing, a prude. How I am a prude is beyond me, as I am one of the raunchiest people I know. (not THE raunchiest.. that goes to a local drag queen)
I think my stance is fairly clear, but I'd be interested in other people's comments or arguments (for or against me).
11:15 < CellPhoneGuy> omfg
11:15 < CellPhoneGuy> i'm so pissed
11:16 < CellPhoneGuy> turns out this chick i wanna bang was at the bar last night all drunk and easy and my buddy called my cell phone instead of my home phone
11:16 < CellPhoneGuy> and my cell doesn't pick up here
11:17 <@eclexia> dood.
11:17 <@eclexia> you're a living cell phone commercial
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> fuck man, i know
11:18 <@eclexia> also
11:18 <@eclexia> taking advantage of a drunk woman != that awesome.
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> i wouldn't be taking advantage of her, she wants me anyway
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> im just not sure she knows that
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> she thinks i'm 'not her type' but she has shown interest in the past
11:19 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: Personally, my cell forwards to my house on no answer
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: how do you set that up?
11:19 <@SecondPerson> So it's always "safe" to call my cell
11:19 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: there's an option on my cell itself
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> hmm
11:19 * CellPhoneGuy looks
11:19 <@SecondPerson> though I had to call cust svc to get them to lengthen the time it rings my cell
11:20 <@JimShoe> i forward my cell to my work number when i'm at work, its easy to do
11:20 <@SecondPerson> The default wasn't long enough for me to pull out the phone, check the callerid, decide if I want to answer, and then answer
11:21 < CellPhoneGuy> i dont think my phone can do it
11:21 <@SecondPerson> Call your provider and ask them to set it up
11:21 <@SecondPerson> or ask at the next meeting. Someone should be able to figure it out
11:21 <@SecondPerson> Or check the phone manual
11:22 <@SecondPerson> It's a fairly standard option; I'd be surprised if your phone didn't have it
11:22 < CellPhoneGuy> i hope to actually make it to the next meeting
11:22 < CellPhoneGuy> well, this was a cheap phone i got when i got my plan
11:22 <@SecondPerson> Ah. I have a Sidekick3
11:23 < CellPhoneGuy> this is just a run of the mill LG $79 phone
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> well, i think it retails for $150 or something but it was half off with the plan i got
11:24 <@eclexia> "She wants me, she just doesn't know that. So t aking advantage of her while drunk is ok"
11:24 <@eclexia> :P
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: no, she's just never seen me outside of school where i maintained a fairly serious attitude
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> she hasn't seen me in my party state
11:24 <@eclexia> heh
11:25 <@eclexia> hate to tell you, "party state" doesn't neccisarily bring good images to my mind
11:25 <@eclexia> lol
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> hah
11:25 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if she can't say "No" when she's drunk, she shouldn't be getting drunk
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> but she has shown interest in me before, i'd actually like to persue a relationship with her... maybe
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> depends on just how slutty she is
11:27 < ThirdPerson> Uh.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> There's something to be said about putting yourself into a situation and getting drunk to the point where you can't say no.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> There are plenty of precautions you can take.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> Either not drinking, not drinking too much, having a friend around to watch you, etc.
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> i'm not sure how i feel about someone watching
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> i might get stage fright
11:28 < ThirdPerson> No wait, I mean keeping an eye on you.
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> oh
11:28 < ThirdPerson> Let's say I'm in a new environment and not used to drinking.
11:28 < ThirdPerson> So I have a friend around for support.
11:28 < ThirdPerson> That's all.
11:29 < ThirdPerson> I mean honestly. Some chick goes to a bar to get hammered, does, then wonders why she gets hit on, and turns into a victim?
11:29 < ThirdPerson> I have no sympathy for that bullshit.
11:29 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: oh come on, that's so much bullshit
11:29 <@eclexia> "Oh she was so drunk she couldn't say no, it MUST be her fault."
11:29 < ThirdPerson> How about this. I'm a straight guy, I go to a gay bar and get hammered.
11:29 < ThirdPerson> And I complain when gay guys start making moves.
11:29 < CellPhoneGuy> no, actually, i'll have to agree with SecondPerson here, people have to take responsibility for their own actions and stop using shit as a crutch
11:30 <@eclexia> perhaps she just wants to go to a bar and get drunk and have a good time
11:30 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: no, it's not. The word is no. It's very easy to say. If you can't say it, your problem.
11:30 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: I want a million dollars and a french whore, but that's not gonna happen.
11:30 < CellPhoneGuy> ThirdPerson: why complain? thats a great way to get free drinks
11:30 < ThirdPerson> CellPhoneGuy: it's a great way to take advantage of people.
11:30 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: so You literally trying to prey on a drunk girl is the drunk girls fault for getting drunk
11:30 <@eclexia> AWESOME
11:30 < CellPhoneGuy> you just gotta make it clear that you're not gay, they still buy you drinks
11:31 <@eclexia> It's ok, she must have wanted to fuck me, because she was drinking
11:31 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: she put herself in the situation.
11:31 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: i'm not trying to fuck her because she's drunk, i'm just trying to get some hangout time with her
11:31 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: Now if it's a roofie, that's a different matter. That's being incapacitated in a way that you didn't choose.
11:31 < CellPhoneGuy> jesus christ, you guys are too sensitive
11:31 < ThirdPerson> Oh yeah.
11:31 <@eclexia> no
11:31 <@eclexia> this is not about being sensitive
11:31 < ThirdPerson> If you slip her a roofie, or anything like that, that's totally different.
11:31 <@eclexia> fuck, if you've been around me, I've been hammered
11:32 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: it's not about sensitivity, it's about common sense and how to handle situations.
11:32 <@eclexia> But I only do it with lissa around, because I'm not stupid
11:32 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: when you're hammered, you can still say no. I've heard you say it.
11:32 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: that's because I don't like getting blitzed
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> i've heard HER say "hey, when i'm drinkin and I get horny, I'm usually down for anything"
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> that came from HER mouth
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> speaking directly to ME with no one else around
11:32 < ThirdPerson> CellPhoneGuy: that's an invitation.
11:33 < CellPhoneGuy> I KNOW
11:33 <@SecondPerson> Peppermint schnapps and pizza. "Would you like some help?" "No."
11:33 < ThirdPerson> You're not hearing oversensitivity. You're hearing bullshit feminism :)
11:33 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: I didn't black out, :)
11:33 <@eclexia> Ok lets look at it this way
11:33 <@eclexia> You get drunk
11:33 <@eclexia> and someone takes your wallet
11:33 <@eclexia> is that ok?
11:33 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: you are smart. Obviously. What we're talking about doesn't really apply to you, from what I've seen.
11:34 <@eclexia> it does though
11:34 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if someone asks for it, and I give it to them, it's my own damn fault.
11:34 <@eclexia> because I don't always have backup
11:34 <@eclexia> though I usually do
11:34 < CellPhoneGuy> its just really hard to find a place to hang out with her, she lives nearly an hour away and has a very active social life, so she rarely comes to my neck of the woods
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Are you really trying to compare personal property theft to complaining when you lead a guy on and he takes advantage of you?
11:34 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: "takes advantage of the situation"
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Bingo.
11:34 <@eclexia> So, it should be legal for people to cruise bars and take wallets from people who are too drunk to make sense of the situation?
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Girl puts herself in a situation to be taken advantage of.
11:34 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: you don't take advantage of a person, you take advantage of a situation
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Guy takes advantage.
11:34 <@eclexia> Mind you, just those that are too drunk to say no
11:35 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: good point.
11:35 <@eclexia> (which is obviously their fault)
11:35 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: seriously, uh... yes I am
11:35 < ThirdPerson> That's not a valid comparison.
11:35 <@eclexia> yes it is
11:35 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: point is, you're never really too drunk to say no (unless you're passed out, which is a different matter)
11:35 <@SecondPerson> Drinking doesn't eliminate speech
11:36 < CellPhoneGuy> the bottom line is, if i hung out with this chick and ended up screwing her while she was drunk and someone thought i was "taking advantage of her", i would have NO problem with the "eye for an eye" routine and having her take advantage of me at some point
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Ok, you want me to go down that route?
11:36 <@eclexia> no, but you're drunk enough to do soemthing you'd not normally do, and drunk people are far more easily convinced of things
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Because according to your logic, female bodies have suddenly become personal property.
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Which includes something which can be bought and sold.
11:36 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: as are Male bodies
11:36 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: Ie, the property of their owner
11:36 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: you seriously don't want to go down that road
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Am I somehow failing to point out the absurdity of this notion?
11:36 <@eclexia> (themself)
11:36 < CellPhoneGuy> fuck man, i've been trying to sell my body for years
11:36 <@eclexia> lol
11:37 <@eclexia> the idea is that the body is involate and non-transferable property is not that new
11:37 <@SecondPerson> You can get into some seriously fucked up shit with that
11:37 <@eclexia> it's not a perfect analogy, but it's close
11:37 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: agreed.
11:37 < ThirdPerson> No, it's not.
11:37 < CellPhoneGuy> lets not bring the legalities of property ownership into this
11:37 < ThirdPerson> Here's a better analogy.
11:37 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: actually, you can sell your body even now (to medical science)
11:37 < ThirdPerson> I leave my kid at the store and someone kidnaps him.
11:38 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: you can
11:38 <@SecondPerson> i.e. they get your body after you die
11:38 < CellPhoneGuy> i don't want to have to calculate the equity of the matter which makes up my physical form
11:38 < ThirdPerson> As opposed to, I entrap someone into kidnapping my kid.
11:38 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: sounds kinky.
11:38 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: wow that's still the, She wore a short skirt, she obviously was asking for it
11:38 < ThirdPerson> Wait.
11:38 <@eclexia> no
11:38 < ThirdPerson> She was obviously asking for it?
11:38 <@eclexia> seriously
11:39 <@eclexia> that's like kissing cousins with the "she was asking for it." line
11:39 <@SecondPerson> Someone who did that once tried to buy his body back, sued, and was ruled against. They even won a countermotion, because he had gotten some dental work done without the permission of the medical university (altering the property they owned)
11:39 < CellPhoneGuy> some people just don't "get it" that some chicks go out wearing slutty clothes with the intent of finding some random dude to fuck
11:39 < ThirdPerson> Ok, let's look at this.
11:39 < ThirdPerson> I'm a girl.
11:39 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: I knew it!
11:39 < CellPhoneGuy> hah
11:39 < ThirdPerson> I have 5 outfits. Four of them are normal, one is kinky.
11:40 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: or sometimes, they just go out wanting to look hot
11:40 < ThirdPerson> So I choose to wear the kinky outfit?
11:40 <@eclexia> ok
11:40 <@eclexia> and?
11:40 < ThirdPerson> Why? Because I want to be respected for who I am and not get hit on?
11:40 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: regretted sex is not rape
11:40 < ThirdPerson> Or because I want to get laid?
11:40 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: that's exactly right
11:40 <@eclexia> I'm not saying it's rape
11:40 < ThirdPerson> I have four other outfits I can wear, none of which will bring the guys around.
11:40 <@eclexia> I'm saying it's immoral to prey on women who are drunk
11:40 <@eclexia> same for men
11:41 < ThirdPerson> But I choose the one I know will, and enter a situation where guys will hit on me.
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> lets not bring morals into this
11:41 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: you are really going down this road?
11:41 < ThirdPerson> Oh hell yes I fucking am.
11:41 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I've never slept with a guy because he was drunk (lord knows, I've tried)
11:41 <@eclexia> "She wore a kinky outfit, so she was asking to be fucked."
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> i mean, we ARE talking about going to a dive bar where people drink heavily with little consideration for morals
11:41 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: yep.
11:41 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: that wasn't aimed at you
11:41 -!- mtown_nerd [n=JHester@jhester.net] has joined #se2600
11:41 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o mtown_nerd] by ChanServ
11:41 <@eclexia> lol
11:41 <@eclexia> sorry
11:41 <@SecondPerson> Their ability to say no was not diminished no matter how much alcohol was in them
11:41 < ThirdPerson> Do you think I'm naive enough to think my actions don't affect or suggest things to other people?
11:41 <@eclexia> I was stating the reverse case of the one I had posed
11:41 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: i'm not saying that
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: that's gotta do wonders for your self-esteem
11:42 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: So then, are you insinuiting the women are also so naive they don't understand this?
11:42 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: I'm saying that you're saying that what a women wears excuses someone taking advantage of her
11:42 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: what, trying to get laid?
11:42 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: If I really wanted to get laid, I could land a different guy every night for the next 2 years
11:42 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: I'm saying that if she puts herself into a situation knowing what might happen, I have no sympathy if someone takes advantage of her.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Unless, as SecondPerson, something like GHB is involved.
11:43 <@eclexia> I say that a woman should be able to go out and look good, without having to worry about some asshole thinking it meens that she's begging to be fucked.
11:43 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: it's not all that difficult. Men are sluts.
11:43 < CellPhoneGuy> ugh, ok, i wasn't being serious when i said that
11:43 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: so basicly "she was asking for it and deserved it"
11:43 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: that's a very me-centric view to take.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> How about this.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> What happens if I walk around naked?
11:43 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: and saying "Oooh she dressed up sexy, must meen I should fuck her" isn't?
11:43 < ThirdPerson> I go into a public area, wearing nothing.
11:43 < CellPhoneGuy> ThirdPerson: i claw my eyes out
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Will I get arrested?
11:43 <@eclexia> you'd get arrested for public indecency
11:43 <@eclexia> lool
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Why?
11:43 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: The issue is, finding a guy who I want to have sex with, in the way that I want to have sex
11:44 <@eclexia> because we are a puritanian society
11:44 < ThirdPerson> No.
11:44 < CellPhoneGuy> WHOA WHOA WHOA, lets not elaborate on the different ways men can have sex with one another
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Because other people see my actions and the situation I've entered, and it affects them directly.
11:44 < CellPhoneGuy> thats information i don't wanna think about in my slightly hungover state
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Whereas if I walk around wearing clothes, I am considered normal and not arrested.
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Now what if I go into a nudist colony? People won't care, and I don't get arrested.
11:45 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: so?
11:45 <@eclexia> it's not about the "affect"
11:45 <@eclexia> really
11:45 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: Nudists don't have as much sex as we'd like to believe
11:45 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: who said anything about sex?
11:45 <@eclexia> because you affect people if you go out in a bright orange jumpsuit too
11:45 <@eclexia> so whoopty doo
11:45 < ThirdPerson> I'm talking about how you act and dress within the context of a situation.
11:45 < ThirdPerson> Right.
11:46 < CellPhoneGuy> most of the nudists i've seen are NOT very attractive
11:46 < ThirdPerson> So you also affect people if you dress up like a slut and get really drunk.
11:46 < CellPhoneGuy> they're usually either old, fat, or both
11:46 <@eclexia> the difference is that you are trying to say that if a woman dresses in a revealing or enticing manner, that it's ok for a guy to take advantage of her
11:46 <@eclexia> because she was obviously asking for it
11:46 <@eclexia> which is complete bullshit, you know how many rape tries have the exact same thing
11:46 < ThirdPerson> Let's define "take advantage" here, because we may be talking about different things.
11:47 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if she is able to say no, and doesn't, then it's not okay to have sex?
11:47 < ThirdPerson> If she says no, or is given drugs, then absolutely that's unethical.
11:47 <@eclexia> because you are saying this "Women dress as they do only for my pleasure, and should take into account the affect they have on me, or I will be all over them"
11:47 * CellPhoneGuy regrets bringing this up
11:47 <@eclexia> no actually, we aren't talking about different things
11:47 <@eclexia> I'm not talking about forced rape
11:47 < ThirdPerson> No.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> I'm saying that how women dress affects me and how I see them.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Here's another example.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Let's say I dress up like a cop, complete with the badge.
11:48 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: have you considered that women may drink precisely because they like that it lowers their inhibitions?
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Will people think I'm a cop?
11:48 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: that's an extremly me-centric view of it
11:48 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: either that or they drink because.. uh.. they like go get drunk? :P
11:49 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: the difference is in assumption of a uniform
11:49 <@eclexia> are you saying there is a slut-uniform?
11:49 < CellPhoneGuy> women who dress sexy and complain when men find them sexy are bitches
11:49 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: i'm not saying you can't find them sexy
11:50 <@SecondPerson> Don't complain if you act like a slut, and then get treated like one.
11:50 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: i'm saying taking advantage of a woman because she is drunk and is wearing something attractive is wrong.
11:50 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: so what exactly is acting like a slut
11:50 <@eclexia> do I?
11:50 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: hardly
11:50 <@eclexia> why not?
11:50 <@eclexia> I'm all over people
11:50 <@eclexia> Hugging
11:50 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I'd go with 'prude'
11:50 <@eclexia> friendly
11:50 <@eclexia> lol
11:50 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: what if this drunk woman who is dressed sexily approaches YOU for sex?
11:51 <@eclexia> I'm a prude? Heh. nice.
11:51 <@SecondPerson> Friendly and slutty are two different things
11:51 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: beyond the fact that I'm married, no, I wouldn't
11:51 <@eclexia> I might get her number or talk with her more, that's for sure.
11:51 < ThirdPerson> Ok, this conversation is annoying and going nowhere.
11:51 < ThirdPerson> I think eclexia just wants attention :)
11:51 <@eclexia> damn
11:51 <@eclexia> you found me out
11:51 * eclexia takes her ball and goes home
11:52 <@SecondPerson> eclexia just needs to find the right man. ;-)
11:52 * eclexia headdesks
11:52 < ThirdPerson> A good American dicking?
11:52 * SecondPerson giggles
11:52 <@eclexia> oh gods.
11:52 <@eclexia> yes because everything revolves around dick :P
11:53 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I openly admit that.
11:53 < ThirdPerson> Of course.
11:53 <@SecondPerson> MmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmm, dick.
11:53 < ThirdPerson> L'ecock, c'est moi
11:53 <@eclexia> lol
11:53 <@eclexia> I'm leaving this with one last note..
11:54 <@eclexia> You wonder why this community doesn't have more women
11:54 <@SecondPerson> ware: the discussion is winding down to the absurd.
11:54 <@eclexia> I would like to recall a situation at pn10, where a croud of women were crouded around a lady yelling for her to take her shirt off
11:54 <@eclexia> while she was trying to tell them about something
11:54 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: because all the really good ones are already taken
11:54 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: it's difficult to not get absurd when every argument you make hits a brick wall.
11:55 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: no, taken, and being involved in a community are two different things
11:55 <@eclexia> there was a palpable feeling there, and it damn near made me shake away in fear
11:55 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: did you know I'm watching porn in another window?
11:55 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: I like porn
11:55 <@eclexia> I've nothing against porn
11:55 < ThirdPerson> It's a porno about a girl who goes to a bar and gets drunk.
11:56 < ThirdPerson> It's really fucking hot.
11:56 <@SecondPerson> Speaking of porn, I'd like an anti-porn feminist to explain to me exactly how gay porn degrades women.
11:56 <@eclexia> lol
11:56 <@eclexia> yeah i'm not a radfem
11:56 <@eclexia> don't take me that way
11:56 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: have you seen Bound?
11:56 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: nope
11:56 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: and I'm playing a video game that has to do with shooting people
11:57 < ThirdPerson> I've heard a lot of great things about it.
11:57 <@eclexia> so, sorry, the choices you make are your own
11:57 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: oh, I've jacked off to those too.
11:57 <@eclexia> not supprised
11:58 < ThirdPerson> But I'm a sick cock-driven maleslut who likes to take advantage of innocent drunk women wearing boobs.
11:58 * eclexia blinks
11:58 <@SecondPerson> You mean, they take them off at the end of the night?
11:58 <@eclexia> heh
11:58 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: been hanging out at drag bars lately?
11:58 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: I don't know, because it's unethical to take advantage of them.
11:59 <@eclexia> here's the takeaway. Sometimes women dress up sexy and go out for their own benifit
11:59 <@eclexia> they want to feel sexy, so they do.
12:00 <@eclexia> that does not meen that they want you, or any guy or girl to take them home
12:00 -!- TheLightCosine [n=root@c-67-177-170-29.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:00 < ThirdPerson> According to feminist logic, the only way to ethically have sex is with a petri dish.
12:00 <@eclexia> asking isn't bad, forcing is.... including forcing through talking a drunk person into sex
12:00 <@eclexia> no, but I do think that people should be sober to start a relationship
12:00 <@eclexia> :P
12:00 <@eclexia> and start having sex
12:01 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: what's wrong with drunken sex.
12:01 < ThirdPerson> I mean, you were conceived *somehow*, right?
12:01 <@eclexia> right. cept for the fact that my mom doesn't drink :P
12:01 < ThirdPerson> Here's a question.
12:01 <@eclexia> she may have been HIGH but that's another thing entirely
12:01 <@eclexia> lol
12:02 < ThirdPerson> If she says no to vaginal sex, is anal sex still permissible?
12:02 < ThirdPerson> That's like... I block port 80, but port 8080 is still open.
12:03 < ThirdPerson> (btw, if you want, I can show you some "port scanning" tricks:p)
12:04 < ThirdPerson> Did I just kill the channel again?
I think my stance is fairly clear, but I'd be interested in other people's comments or arguments (for or against me).
11:15 < CellPhoneGuy> omfg
11:15 < CellPhoneGuy> i'm so pissed
11:16 < CellPhoneGuy> turns out this chick i wanna bang was at the bar last night all drunk and easy and my buddy called my cell phone instead of my home phone
11:16 < CellPhoneGuy> and my cell doesn't pick up here
11:17 <@eclexia> dood.
11:17 <@eclexia> you're a living cell phone commercial
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> fuck man, i know
11:18 <@eclexia> also
11:18 <@eclexia> taking advantage of a drunk woman != that awesome.
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> i wouldn't be taking advantage of her, she wants me anyway
11:18 < CellPhoneGuy> im just not sure she knows that
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> she thinks i'm 'not her type' but she has shown interest in the past
11:19 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: Personally, my cell forwards to my house on no answer
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: how do you set that up?
11:19 <@SecondPerson> So it's always "safe" to call my cell
11:19 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: there's an option on my cell itself
11:19 < CellPhoneGuy> hmm
11:19 * CellPhoneGuy looks
11:19 <@SecondPerson> though I had to call cust svc to get them to lengthen the time it rings my cell
11:20 <@JimShoe> i forward my cell to my work number when i'm at work, its easy to do
11:20 <@SecondPerson> The default wasn't long enough for me to pull out the phone, check the callerid, decide if I want to answer, and then answer
11:21 < CellPhoneGuy> i dont think my phone can do it
11:21 <@SecondPerson> Call your provider and ask them to set it up
11:21 <@SecondPerson> or ask at the next meeting. Someone should be able to figure it out
11:21 <@SecondPerson> Or check the phone manual
11:22 <@SecondPerson> It's a fairly standard option; I'd be surprised if your phone didn't have it
11:22 < CellPhoneGuy> i hope to actually make it to the next meeting
11:22 < CellPhoneGuy> well, this was a cheap phone i got when i got my plan
11:22 <@SecondPerson> Ah. I have a Sidekick3
11:23 < CellPhoneGuy> this is just a run of the mill LG $79 phone
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> well, i think it retails for $150 or something but it was half off with the plan i got
11:24 <@eclexia> "She wants me, she just doesn't know that. So t aking advantage of her while drunk is ok"
11:24 <@eclexia> :P
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: no, she's just never seen me outside of school where i maintained a fairly serious attitude
11:24 < CellPhoneGuy> she hasn't seen me in my party state
11:24 <@eclexia> heh
11:25 <@eclexia> hate to tell you, "party state" doesn't neccisarily bring good images to my mind
11:25 <@eclexia> lol
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> hah
11:25 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if she can't say "No" when she's drunk, she shouldn't be getting drunk
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> but she has shown interest in me before, i'd actually like to persue a relationship with her... maybe
11:25 < CellPhoneGuy> depends on just how slutty she is
11:27 < ThirdPerson> Uh.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> There's something to be said about putting yourself into a situation and getting drunk to the point where you can't say no.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> There are plenty of precautions you can take.
11:27 < ThirdPerson> Either not drinking, not drinking too much, having a friend around to watch you, etc.
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> i'm not sure how i feel about someone watching
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> i might get stage fright
11:28 < ThirdPerson> No wait, I mean keeping an eye on you.
11:28 < CellPhoneGuy> oh
11:28 < ThirdPerson> Let's say I'm in a new environment and not used to drinking.
11:28 < ThirdPerson> So I have a friend around for support.
11:28 < ThirdPerson> That's all.
11:29 < ThirdPerson> I mean honestly. Some chick goes to a bar to get hammered, does, then wonders why she gets hit on, and turns into a victim?
11:29 < ThirdPerson> I have no sympathy for that bullshit.
11:29 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: oh come on, that's so much bullshit
11:29 <@eclexia> "Oh she was so drunk she couldn't say no, it MUST be her fault."
11:29 < ThirdPerson> How about this. I'm a straight guy, I go to a gay bar and get hammered.
11:29 < ThirdPerson> And I complain when gay guys start making moves.
11:29 < CellPhoneGuy> no, actually, i'll have to agree with SecondPerson here, people have to take responsibility for their own actions and stop using shit as a crutch
11:30 <@eclexia> perhaps she just wants to go to a bar and get drunk and have a good time
11:30 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: no, it's not. The word is no. It's very easy to say. If you can't say it, your problem.
11:30 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: I want a million dollars and a french whore, but that's not gonna happen.
11:30 < CellPhoneGuy> ThirdPerson: why complain? thats a great way to get free drinks
11:30 < ThirdPerson> CellPhoneGuy: it's a great way to take advantage of people.
11:30 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: so You literally trying to prey on a drunk girl is the drunk girls fault for getting drunk
11:30 <@eclexia> AWESOME
11:30 < CellPhoneGuy> you just gotta make it clear that you're not gay, they still buy you drinks
11:31 <@eclexia> It's ok, she must have wanted to fuck me, because she was drinking
11:31 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: she put herself in the situation.
11:31 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: i'm not trying to fuck her because she's drunk, i'm just trying to get some hangout time with her
11:31 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: Now if it's a roofie, that's a different matter. That's being incapacitated in a way that you didn't choose.
11:31 < CellPhoneGuy> jesus christ, you guys are too sensitive
11:31 < ThirdPerson> Oh yeah.
11:31 <@eclexia> no
11:31 <@eclexia> this is not about being sensitive
11:31 < ThirdPerson> If you slip her a roofie, or anything like that, that's totally different.
11:31 <@eclexia> fuck, if you've been around me, I've been hammered
11:32 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: it's not about sensitivity, it's about common sense and how to handle situations.
11:32 <@eclexia> But I only do it with lissa around, because I'm not stupid
11:32 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: when you're hammered, you can still say no. I've heard you say it.
11:32 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: that's because I don't like getting blitzed
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> i've heard HER say "hey, when i'm drinkin and I get horny, I'm usually down for anything"
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> that came from HER mouth
11:32 < CellPhoneGuy> speaking directly to ME with no one else around
11:32 < ThirdPerson> CellPhoneGuy: that's an invitation.
11:33 < CellPhoneGuy> I KNOW
11:33 <@SecondPerson> Peppermint schnapps and pizza. "Would you like some help?" "No."
11:33 < ThirdPerson> You're not hearing oversensitivity. You're hearing bullshit feminism :)
11:33 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: I didn't black out, :)
11:33 <@eclexia> Ok lets look at it this way
11:33 <@eclexia> You get drunk
11:33 <@eclexia> and someone takes your wallet
11:33 <@eclexia> is that ok?
11:33 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: you are smart. Obviously. What we're talking about doesn't really apply to you, from what I've seen.
11:34 <@eclexia> it does though
11:34 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if someone asks for it, and I give it to them, it's my own damn fault.
11:34 <@eclexia> because I don't always have backup
11:34 <@eclexia> though I usually do
11:34 < CellPhoneGuy> its just really hard to find a place to hang out with her, she lives nearly an hour away and has a very active social life, so she rarely comes to my neck of the woods
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Are you really trying to compare personal property theft to complaining when you lead a guy on and he takes advantage of you?
11:34 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: "takes advantage of the situation"
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Bingo.
11:34 <@eclexia> So, it should be legal for people to cruise bars and take wallets from people who are too drunk to make sense of the situation?
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Girl puts herself in a situation to be taken advantage of.
11:34 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: you don't take advantage of a person, you take advantage of a situation
11:34 < ThirdPerson> Guy takes advantage.
11:34 <@eclexia> Mind you, just those that are too drunk to say no
11:35 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: good point.
11:35 <@eclexia> (which is obviously their fault)
11:35 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: seriously, uh... yes I am
11:35 < ThirdPerson> That's not a valid comparison.
11:35 <@eclexia> yes it is
11:35 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: point is, you're never really too drunk to say no (unless you're passed out, which is a different matter)
11:35 <@SecondPerson> Drinking doesn't eliminate speech
11:36 < CellPhoneGuy> the bottom line is, if i hung out with this chick and ended up screwing her while she was drunk and someone thought i was "taking advantage of her", i would have NO problem with the "eye for an eye" routine and having her take advantage of me at some point
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Ok, you want me to go down that route?
11:36 <@eclexia> no, but you're drunk enough to do soemthing you'd not normally do, and drunk people are far more easily convinced of things
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Because according to your logic, female bodies have suddenly become personal property.
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Which includes something which can be bought and sold.
11:36 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: as are Male bodies
11:36 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: Ie, the property of their owner
11:36 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: you seriously don't want to go down that road
11:36 < ThirdPerson> Am I somehow failing to point out the absurdity of this notion?
11:36 <@eclexia> (themself)
11:36 < CellPhoneGuy> fuck man, i've been trying to sell my body for years
11:36 <@eclexia> lol
11:37 <@eclexia> the idea is that the body is involate and non-transferable property is not that new
11:37 <@SecondPerson> You can get into some seriously fucked up shit with that
11:37 <@eclexia> it's not a perfect analogy, but it's close
11:37 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: agreed.
11:37 < ThirdPerson> No, it's not.
11:37 < CellPhoneGuy> lets not bring the legalities of property ownership into this
11:37 < ThirdPerson> Here's a better analogy.
11:37 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: actually, you can sell your body even now (to medical science)
11:37 < ThirdPerson> I leave my kid at the store and someone kidnaps him.
11:38 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: you can
11:38 <@SecondPerson> i.e. they get your body after you die
11:38 < CellPhoneGuy> i don't want to have to calculate the equity of the matter which makes up my physical form
11:38 < ThirdPerson> As opposed to, I entrap someone into kidnapping my kid.
11:38 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: sounds kinky.
11:38 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: wow that's still the, She wore a short skirt, she obviously was asking for it
11:38 < ThirdPerson> Wait.
11:38 <@eclexia> no
11:38 < ThirdPerson> She was obviously asking for it?
11:38 <@eclexia> seriously
11:39 <@eclexia> that's like kissing cousins with the "she was asking for it." line
11:39 <@SecondPerson> Someone who did that once tried to buy his body back, sued, and was ruled against. They even won a countermotion, because he had gotten some dental work done without the permission of the medical university (altering the property they owned)
11:39 < CellPhoneGuy> some people just don't "get it" that some chicks go out wearing slutty clothes with the intent of finding some random dude to fuck
11:39 < ThirdPerson> Ok, let's look at this.
11:39 < ThirdPerson> I'm a girl.
11:39 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: I knew it!
11:39 < CellPhoneGuy> hah
11:39 < ThirdPerson> I have 5 outfits. Four of them are normal, one is kinky.
11:40 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: or sometimes, they just go out wanting to look hot
11:40 < ThirdPerson> So I choose to wear the kinky outfit?
11:40 <@eclexia> ok
11:40 <@eclexia> and?
11:40 < ThirdPerson> Why? Because I want to be respected for who I am and not get hit on?
11:40 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: regretted sex is not rape
11:40 < ThirdPerson> Or because I want to get laid?
11:40 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: that's exactly right
11:40 <@eclexia> I'm not saying it's rape
11:40 < ThirdPerson> I have four other outfits I can wear, none of which will bring the guys around.
11:40 <@eclexia> I'm saying it's immoral to prey on women who are drunk
11:40 <@eclexia> same for men
11:41 < ThirdPerson> But I choose the one I know will, and enter a situation where guys will hit on me.
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> lets not bring morals into this
11:41 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: you are really going down this road?
11:41 < ThirdPerson> Oh hell yes I fucking am.
11:41 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I've never slept with a guy because he was drunk (lord knows, I've tried)
11:41 <@eclexia> "She wore a kinky outfit, so she was asking to be fucked."
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> i mean, we ARE talking about going to a dive bar where people drink heavily with little consideration for morals
11:41 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: yep.
11:41 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: that wasn't aimed at you
11:41 -!- mtown_nerd [n=JHester@jhester.net] has joined #se2600
11:41 -!- mode/#se2600 [+o mtown_nerd] by ChanServ
11:41 <@eclexia> lol
11:41 <@eclexia> sorry
11:41 <@SecondPerson> Their ability to say no was not diminished no matter how much alcohol was in them
11:41 < ThirdPerson> Do you think I'm naive enough to think my actions don't affect or suggest things to other people?
11:41 <@eclexia> I was stating the reverse case of the one I had posed
11:41 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: i'm not saying that
11:41 < CellPhoneGuy> SecondPerson: that's gotta do wonders for your self-esteem
11:42 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: So then, are you insinuiting the women are also so naive they don't understand this?
11:42 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: I'm saying that you're saying that what a women wears excuses someone taking advantage of her
11:42 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: what, trying to get laid?
11:42 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: If I really wanted to get laid, I could land a different guy every night for the next 2 years
11:42 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: I'm saying that if she puts herself into a situation knowing what might happen, I have no sympathy if someone takes advantage of her.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Unless, as SecondPerson, something like GHB is involved.
11:43 <@eclexia> I say that a woman should be able to go out and look good, without having to worry about some asshole thinking it meens that she's begging to be fucked.
11:43 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: it's not all that difficult. Men are sluts.
11:43 < CellPhoneGuy> ugh, ok, i wasn't being serious when i said that
11:43 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: so basicly "she was asking for it and deserved it"
11:43 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: that's a very me-centric view to take.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> How about this.
11:43 < ThirdPerson> What happens if I walk around naked?
11:43 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: and saying "Oooh she dressed up sexy, must meen I should fuck her" isn't?
11:43 < ThirdPerson> I go into a public area, wearing nothing.
11:43 < CellPhoneGuy> ThirdPerson: i claw my eyes out
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Will I get arrested?
11:43 <@eclexia> you'd get arrested for public indecency
11:43 <@eclexia> lool
11:43 < ThirdPerson> Why?
11:43 <@SecondPerson> CellPhoneGuy: The issue is, finding a guy who I want to have sex with, in the way that I want to have sex
11:44 <@eclexia> because we are a puritanian society
11:44 < ThirdPerson> No.
11:44 < CellPhoneGuy> WHOA WHOA WHOA, lets not elaborate on the different ways men can have sex with one another
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Because other people see my actions and the situation I've entered, and it affects them directly.
11:44 < CellPhoneGuy> thats information i don't wanna think about in my slightly hungover state
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Whereas if I walk around wearing clothes, I am considered normal and not arrested.
11:44 < ThirdPerson> Now what if I go into a nudist colony? People won't care, and I don't get arrested.
11:45 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: so?
11:45 <@eclexia> it's not about the "affect"
11:45 <@eclexia> really
11:45 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: Nudists don't have as much sex as we'd like to believe
11:45 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: who said anything about sex?
11:45 <@eclexia> because you affect people if you go out in a bright orange jumpsuit too
11:45 <@eclexia> so whoopty doo
11:45 < ThirdPerson> I'm talking about how you act and dress within the context of a situation.
11:45 < ThirdPerson> Right.
11:46 < CellPhoneGuy> most of the nudists i've seen are NOT very attractive
11:46 < ThirdPerson> So you also affect people if you dress up like a slut and get really drunk.
11:46 < CellPhoneGuy> they're usually either old, fat, or both
11:46 <@eclexia> the difference is that you are trying to say that if a woman dresses in a revealing or enticing manner, that it's ok for a guy to take advantage of her
11:46 <@eclexia> because she was obviously asking for it
11:46 <@eclexia> which is complete bullshit, you know how many rape tries have the exact same thing
11:46 < ThirdPerson> Let's define "take advantage" here, because we may be talking about different things.
11:47 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: if she is able to say no, and doesn't, then it's not okay to have sex?
11:47 < ThirdPerson> If she says no, or is given drugs, then absolutely that's unethical.
11:47 <@eclexia> because you are saying this "Women dress as they do only for my pleasure, and should take into account the affect they have on me, or I will be all over them"
11:47 * CellPhoneGuy regrets bringing this up
11:47 <@eclexia> no actually, we aren't talking about different things
11:47 <@eclexia> I'm not talking about forced rape
11:47 < ThirdPerson> No.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> I'm saying that how women dress affects me and how I see them.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Here's another example.
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Let's say I dress up like a cop, complete with the badge.
11:48 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: have you considered that women may drink precisely because they like that it lowers their inhibitions?
11:48 < ThirdPerson> Will people think I'm a cop?
11:48 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: that's an extremly me-centric view of it
11:48 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: either that or they drink because.. uh.. they like go get drunk? :P
11:49 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: the difference is in assumption of a uniform
11:49 <@eclexia> are you saying there is a slut-uniform?
11:49 < CellPhoneGuy> women who dress sexy and complain when men find them sexy are bitches
11:49 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: i'm not saying you can't find them sexy
11:50 <@SecondPerson> Don't complain if you act like a slut, and then get treated like one.
11:50 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: i'm saying taking advantage of a woman because she is drunk and is wearing something attractive is wrong.
11:50 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: so what exactly is acting like a slut
11:50 <@eclexia> do I?
11:50 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: hardly
11:50 <@eclexia> why not?
11:50 <@eclexia> I'm all over people
11:50 <@eclexia> Hugging
11:50 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I'd go with 'prude'
11:50 <@eclexia> friendly
11:50 <@eclexia> lol
11:50 < CellPhoneGuy> eclexia: what if this drunk woman who is dressed sexily approaches YOU for sex?
11:51 <@eclexia> I'm a prude? Heh. nice.
11:51 <@SecondPerson> Friendly and slutty are two different things
11:51 <@eclexia> CellPhoneGuy: beyond the fact that I'm married, no, I wouldn't
11:51 <@eclexia> I might get her number or talk with her more, that's for sure.
11:51 < ThirdPerson> Ok, this conversation is annoying and going nowhere.
11:51 < ThirdPerson> I think eclexia just wants attention :)
11:51 <@eclexia> damn
11:51 <@eclexia> you found me out
11:51 * eclexia takes her ball and goes home
11:52 <@SecondPerson> eclexia just needs to find the right man. ;-)
11:52 * eclexia headdesks
11:52 < ThirdPerson> A good American dicking?
11:52 * SecondPerson giggles
11:52 <@eclexia> oh gods.
11:52 <@eclexia> yes because everything revolves around dick :P
11:53 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: I openly admit that.
11:53 < ThirdPerson> Of course.
11:53 <@SecondPerson> MmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmm, dick.
11:53 < ThirdPerson> L'ecock, c'est moi
11:53 <@eclexia> lol
11:53 <@eclexia> I'm leaving this with one last note..
11:54 <@eclexia> You wonder why this community doesn't have more women
11:54 <@SecondPerson> ware: the discussion is winding down to the absurd.
11:54 <@eclexia> I would like to recall a situation at pn10, where a croud of women were crouded around a lady yelling for her to take her shirt off
11:54 <@eclexia> while she was trying to tell them about something
11:54 <@SecondPerson> eclexia: because all the really good ones are already taken
11:54 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: it's difficult to not get absurd when every argument you make hits a brick wall.
11:55 <@eclexia> SecondPerson: no, taken, and being involved in a community are two different things
11:55 <@eclexia> there was a palpable feeling there, and it damn near made me shake away in fear
11:55 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: did you know I'm watching porn in another window?
11:55 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: I like porn
11:55 <@eclexia> I've nothing against porn
11:55 < ThirdPerson> It's a porno about a girl who goes to a bar and gets drunk.
11:56 < ThirdPerson> It's really fucking hot.
11:56 <@SecondPerson> Speaking of porn, I'd like an anti-porn feminist to explain to me exactly how gay porn degrades women.
11:56 <@eclexia> lol
11:56 <@eclexia> yeah i'm not a radfem
11:56 <@eclexia> don't take me that way
11:56 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: have you seen Bound?
11:56 <@SecondPerson> ThirdPerson: nope
11:56 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: and I'm playing a video game that has to do with shooting people
11:57 < ThirdPerson> I've heard a lot of great things about it.
11:57 <@eclexia> so, sorry, the choices you make are your own
11:57 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: oh, I've jacked off to those too.
11:57 <@eclexia> not supprised
11:58 < ThirdPerson> But I'm a sick cock-driven maleslut who likes to take advantage of innocent drunk women wearing boobs.
11:58 * eclexia blinks
11:58 <@SecondPerson> You mean, they take them off at the end of the night?
11:58 <@eclexia> heh
11:58 <@eclexia> ThirdPerson: been hanging out at drag bars lately?
11:58 < ThirdPerson> SecondPerson: I don't know, because it's unethical to take advantage of them.
11:59 <@eclexia> here's the takeaway. Sometimes women dress up sexy and go out for their own benifit
11:59 <@eclexia> they want to feel sexy, so they do.
12:00 <@eclexia> that does not meen that they want you, or any guy or girl to take them home
12:00 -!- TheLightCosine [n=root@c-67-177-170-29.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
12:00 < ThirdPerson> According to feminist logic, the only way to ethically have sex is with a petri dish.
12:00 <@eclexia> asking isn't bad, forcing is.... including forcing through talking a drunk person into sex
12:00 <@eclexia> no, but I do think that people should be sober to start a relationship
12:00 <@eclexia> :P
12:00 <@eclexia> and start having sex
12:01 < ThirdPerson> eclexia: what's wrong with drunken sex.
12:01 < ThirdPerson> I mean, you were conceived *somehow*, right?
12:01 <@eclexia> right. cept for the fact that my mom doesn't drink :P
12:01 < ThirdPerson> Here's a question.
12:01 <@eclexia> she may have been HIGH but that's another thing entirely
12:01 <@eclexia> lol
12:02 < ThirdPerson> If she says no to vaginal sex, is anal sex still permissible?
12:02 < ThirdPerson> That's like... I block port 80, but port 8080 is still open.
12:03 < ThirdPerson> (btw, if you want, I can show you some "port scanning" tricks:p)
12:04 < ThirdPerson> Did I just kill the channel again?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-08-22 04:50 pm (UTC)Maybe she just wants to feel sexy and get drunk.
However, by placing herself in that environment, she has given permission to be ogled and/or hit on. I'm sorry, but she HAS. It's a bar, and that's what people do there. How is a guy supposed to know (sorry, assuming a hetero situation here, but that's how the chat log seemed to be going) that she isn't interested unless he asks?
If she's not, and says she's not, then you back the hell off.
And, if he pursues her while she's at a bar, because they're both there and she is interested in that moment, how is that the guy's fault just for asking?
And maybe it is "taking advantage" if a woman consents to sex while she's drunk, but not everyone has the same ethical standards.
And this is why nobody should ever get drunk at a bar.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-24 05:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 04:16 pm (UTC)A legal contract can be invalidated (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Contracts) because one of the signatories is intoxicated, and I would say that a woman's right to bodily integrity is just as important as any legal contract.
I don't even really have an issue with people meeting up at a bar while drunk and getting it on. I think it's a bad idea, but I've no right to tell people what to do with their life. This conversation was not regarding that however, it was regarding a situation where as person was expressing regret that he missed a chance to have a shot at someone who was "drunk and easy."
no subject
Date: 2008-08-27 04:52 pm (UTC)